I have lost count of the number of times that I have been crossing Brownlow Rd by the tube station, with the traffic lights indicating it is safe to cross, and a vehicle comes zooming around the corner. There is no left turn for vehicles at this junction, with a road sign clearly forbidding it. Sometimes the driver will stop as pedestrians are milling across the road and look a bit sheepish, others, kind of drive through the gap in the pedestrians dangerously. The photo above must have been taken at 6am on a Sunday, as normally there is a lot of traffic at this corner.It’s not as though this is an unknown problem to our political representatives in Bounds Green on Haringey council. We have two Lib Dems and one Labour councillor in Bounds Green. The Labour one sent a leaflet around locally a year or so back, saying that he would ensure that a bigger ‘no left turn’ sign was displayed further back on Bounds Green Rd, but this hasn’t happened.
When I was ‘telling’ at the Alexandra ward by-election recently, I recognised the Lib Dem teller as one of the Bounds Green councillors, so took the issue up with him. He also suggested bigger road signs further back, but didn’t seem particularly concerned. I told him that yes more signs would be better, but that it was just bad driving. Incredibly, he said that drivers had a lot to look out for, so needed assistance.
Well, driving in urban areas is all about looking out for traffic signs etc, and I think these drivers know that should not turn left at this junction, but just do it anyway. I’m not a big fan of TV cameras everywhere, but in this instance I am in favour of them at this junction. One day, someone will be seriously injured or even killed at this corner.
22 comments:
Hi Mike, just testing the system. Let's have some more people contributing to this blog!
What are the big issues in Haringey right now ?
I agree with you about this junction, Mike. I often cross over there with my daughter in the pushchair, and have learnt to be super-careful. Pedestrians shouldn't have to live in fear when crossing the road - the rules of the road should be enforced to ensure our safety.
There's a junction in Archway, on the corner of McDonald Road, where I was nearly knocked over by a bus in 2006. It's a one way street and traffic 'swings' around from the left, out of sight, and it is particularly dangerous. I complained to Islington council, saying that clearer signs were needed for pedestrians. Nothing was done.
Then last December, a woman was killed there, by a bus. I have spoken to Islington council several times, and STILL nothing has been done. So even when someone dies, councils often do nothing to prevent further deaths. It beggars belief really.
This road is on the border between Haringey and Enfield. I've contacted Enfield Green Party, and they are just as concerned as us. But, they tell me that there may be plan to allow left turns at this junction, and reconfigure the the traffic lights accordingly. We'll see.
I have just recived a PCN from Harringey council for this junction. i can say that i did not notice any signage at the time and only from reviewing the issue on the internet have seen that there is signage. Could i suggest that if this junction is a 'no turn left' then the kerb line is moved out to a right angle to make it clearly obvious to all road users.
I fully agree with Anonymous above. I have just received a PCN for the same left turn here and while I whole heartedly support the safety of pedestrians (I am one myself on occasion!) I have to stress that the 'no left turn' sign is tiny and very easy to simply not see! More needs to be done to ensure that this illegal left turn is made more obvious and making the curb straight could help. In my opinion the council have happily left it this way in the hope that people will slip up and have to hand over their money.
The last time I looked, there was a big no turn sign about 100 meters before the turning. The signs on the traffic lights are small, but they are always this small everywhere.
I'm afraid that people are just not driving with due care and attention, so I'm glad they have started fining people.
Someone will killed at this junction, if drivers carry on ignoring the road signs.
I have just received a PCN at this junction. Used to live in the area some time ago so very familiar with how dangerous this junction was and still is for pedestrians and drivers . Terrible signage, still not sure where the no left turn sign was and obviously didnt see it.Really wasn't intending to take illegal left turn and certainly not to end up with a fine.
Surely the councils have a duty of care to make the signage clear for drivers and to protect pedestrians.
I thought I'd add a quick comment here, I know this is an old blog but this is still somewhat an issue in my local area. I've been living in Bounds Green for 3 years and in all that time, I have turned left at those lights by the station every day, without even realising there were signs or that there could possibly be a reason not to turn left there. I had seen the 'No Left Turn' signs but assumed they were warning me of the no left turn in to Queen's Road. I only found out that there was actually a restriction here when a friend of mine was sent a PCN fine for turning left there. Obviously, if you are not allowed to turn left there, it should be far more obvious, as I have spoken to numerous locals who also had no idea this existed. Enforcing it is fine, as long as it is well enough sign posted, but what I can't understand is what the restrictions are used for? What is the purpose of a no left turn restriction in an unexpected location? If it is simply because of the dangers of crossing the road outside the station, why not just change the priorities at the lights so that at the time there is a green crossing light, no traffic is moving at the junction at all. If it is a traffic flow issue, it's certainly not working because every part of that junction is ghastly at most times of the day. If it is to stop cars driving down Brownlow Road, then why can all the other parts of that junction turn down the road without restriction? Also, it's even quicker now to drive down York Road and skip the lights completely which causes far more traffic on smaller residential roads and beside the park where you are likely to find a great number of children. I'm concerned that this situation even exists and hope residents can encourage an better solution to a problem that does not seem to exist. I know a few people have said they have nearly been hitting crossing the road near the station, but that is only because traffic is allowed to flow (albeit illegally) at the same time as you are given a green light to cross the road. Car users should be far more watchful, of course, but there should never be a reason (including road restrictions) for creating the possibility of cars being on the road at the same time as people believing they have the right to cross. A foolish set up. Something must be done.
Thought I'd also add, turned left here every day for 3 years. Never had a fine. A friend visits once, turns left, big fine! Some consistency would be great.
I know I'm posting a year after all this talk, but I have just recieved a massive fine from Haringey at for turning left at this junction. I would like to think I am usually a very good driver and have never recieved a fine for something like this before. I am mortified I made an illegal turn and could have endangered pedestrians. When I recieved the notice it took me a long time to work out what I had done wrong as I can honestly say I did not know I had made an illegal turn - the 'no left turn' needs to be made clear in road markings and as someone here says make the curb so it is impossible to make the turn - what on earth is the reason for no left turn?! As usual the council put in place something illegal with little reason and then make huge fines on innocent people! If it is a dangerous turn then make it impossible for car drivers to make the dangerous turn!
As the comment on 27 jul 2013. Big fine thanks! but as they suggest curbing could be adjusted but why has messages on road been removed(You can still see ahead only with paint removed!)Surely cant be right or lets confuse everyone to make some money!!
As above. Received a PCN for the same offence. Going to appeal this as I pride myself on safe driving and this no left turn was definitely or maybe deliberately unclear?
Good afternoon. A question to anonymous. The same happened to me on a wet 4th December 2013 evening. I couldn't see the road markings remaining before the junction and missed the yellow road sign as I stopped to buy a drink from the shop just after. The pedestrian crossing is a considerable distance back from the junction and I didn't register the sign on the traffic light. I did not deliberately ignore the instruction. I'm curious at what was the outcome to your appeal? Thanks for any assistance.
My partner has just received a PCN for left turn at this junction according to these blogs this has been going on since 2011 with signage obviously not clear enough so it seems to me that this is just another way of the government getting money from us . If they were that bothered about the safety of pedestrians they should do something about they layout of the road or the signage Karen price
My partner has just received a PCN for turning left and said he didn't see no signage or else he wouldn't have turned left there . Seems to me the local council are not that bothered about the safety of pedestrians more like making money out of drivers otherwise this would still not be an issue in 2015 when the first blog on here was 2011 . If this is so dangerous for pedestrians why has it not been addressed for 4 years maybe the council could use the money they've received in fines to put this right Karen price
I honestly didn't see the sign. Looking on google streetview it's clear but I guess at the time I was watching other vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians. Just out of interest why can't you turn left?
Same again. Just received the penalty from the camera. Not being familiar with the area and not particularly clear signs or road layout to make it clear that left turns are not allowed I was simply trying to go round the block to find a parking space, like most others here it is very unclear and makes no sense unless you know the history of accidents on the pedestrian crossing - but the lack of prevention is making it more dangerous when they could just time the crossing properly... How come turning right from the opposite direction is fine!?
Very annoying but, having checked on street view I can see the signs... One big one probably obscured by a vehicle when I was driving and the tiny ones on the lights themselves. It's just money raising in the name of safety - especially when so many people keep turning left since it naturally looks like you can...
It is ridiculous that its not more obvious. yes there is a sign, but its not obvious.
I just received a pcn which is very annoying. The sign is very small and if there are big vehicles infront of you,you would not able to see it at all. This is just a way to make money from the drivers. Very ridiculous
Another victim of the Bounds Green Station no left turn cash grab here.
Why shouldn't you be able to turn left from Bounds Green Road into Brownlow Road? The kerb is not squared off and you're not turning into traffic like a right turn.
Is it for pedestrians to be able to cross safely from the station? Then change the traffic light signalling or square off the kerb.
I'd like to see a freedom of information request to find out how much money they're making off this junction.
This is typical L B Haringey. I used to live in the borough but now I wont buy a bubble gum in that borough. I hope it rots in hell.
Its ONLY there to make money very successfully. Trick people. Labour moan about the Tories when they are just the same.
There is no attempt to make the junction actually any SAFER and its not the fact of turning left that the problem it is if you were to speed which is at all same junctions. Its a typical left turn. For 100 years previously you could previously turn left! Slow the drivers down with a ramp. Haringey invented RAMPS. Oh sorry ramps don't make money.
Why is there NOT a no Left Turn at the junction itself? Why is it at the previous traffic light 100 Metres away? So If I go though the lights then go a shop on the left before the next junction and I have to then remember that its a no left turn but there is no sign at the actual junction itself.
Why if its so dangerous just block the filter OFF? Why is it still able to go down there. Oh sorry that would stop the PCN's
I am going to fight my PCN and bring all the evidence to the case office I have collected including FILM of the area and how many people go through it innocently.
In future I will drive 15 miles an hr to wood green high road instead (sod Brownlow Rd) and then take a left there and cause more pollution and more traffic and slow down the whole area. Please do the same just go super slow. Great for the so called carbon footprint.
Absolute disgrace and joke.
I'm sorry I simply don't believe that you all failed to see the signs. I think some of you simply ignored them. Especially the person who says he made that turn every day for three years! If youre so bad at reading road signs you shouldnt be on the road. I think most of the drivers who make that illegal left turn know perfectly well they shouldnt - they are doing it for their own convenience. You should try crossing there as a pedestrian and then maybe you'll understand why you're getting fines. I was crossing there this afternoon and a car tried to make that turn - while i'm crossing as a pedestrian, at a green light! Its so dangerous! I challenged her and got a mouthful of abuse. I hope she gets a fine : - ) I'm really glad to hear they are issuing them. If you don't want one, read and obey the road signs and show pedestrians a bit of respect.
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